Not if the “third party” software is designed to install on Linux easily.
For this rebuttal we will forget the fact that almost all software in a Linux distribution is “third party”. I believe what those who claim to detest Linux really mean by “third party” are non-free applications from closed source developers and some few FOSS projects not included with major Linux distributions. Surely they do not mean installing on Mandriva some helper application designed on and for Ubuntu. Or certainly they do not mean installing applications that would typically be done by a company’s technical support personnel, like maybe LedgerSMB for business accounting. That would be silly.
Assuredly the Loathers of Linux do not intend to suggest software designed for the Microsoft platforms here. I for one am a firm believer that if you, the user, must have a software application designed for Microsoft platforms that is not also available natively on Linux then stick with Microsoft for that application. Do not try to shoe-horn “Windows” applications onto Linux using WINE unless you really do have a desire to learn, time and patience. Also, be willing to admit it just will not work in some cases. If one truly wants to use Linux and wants an application designed on and for Microsoft platforms then use both operating systems, maybe with a virtual machine for running a Microsoft operating system on your Linux system. Then contact those proprietary software developers letting them know you are looking for a Linux version of their application.
Edit Thu Aug 14 18:21:26 UTC 2008: Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols has an article about using Crossover Office to run Windows applications. Crossover Office is not free but for those who want Linux and want to run some Windows applications it is less expensive than the average, off the shelf Microsoft license. This will offer a better experience for the non-technical user if he wants to attempt to run Windows applications under WINE instead of using a virtual machine or multi-booting. Windows apps on Linux the CrossOver way.
The problem with “third party” software is not Linux, it is the offerings from some software developers that do not take into account the fact there are non-technical users that want to install their stuff on Linux. The vast majority of non-geeks will freeze up and balk at the idea of downloading a *.tar.gz, uncompressing it, making sure all the development libraries are in place, then running ./configure + make + make install. After that having to perhaps figure out how to place the resulting application in a menu can be overwhelming to a new user. Happily, the vast majority of Linux software on major Linux distributions is just a point and click away for installation.
I am aware that one is unlikely to get the source for proprietary software to build in this manner. However, there are FOSS projects that are not included in major Linux distributions and do not offer an easy way to install their software for the non-technical user. Is this a problem with Linux? No. Is this a problem with these particular projects? Yes. This is where developers that Do It Right should be an example to emulate for the Linux developer community. Many of these Do It Right developers are working within the various Linux distributions, like Mandriva and Ubuntu, to make installing software painless. But “third party” proprietary developers are less likely to be working this way. Even in those cases, some “get it”.
One “third party” proprietary developer that Does It Right is Adobe. I do not believe anyone can claim that Adobe is primarily a FOSS developer, thus Adobe is most definitely “third party”. This video shows how one can easily install the “third party” application Adobe Reader on Mandriva Linux. Again, I am using the fluxbox window manager which does not auto-magically update its’ menus like KDE and Gnome can. Again, I use a command to update the menus which is non-typical for most KDE and Gnome users. Since I have the “kdebase-common” packages installed on Mandriva an entry is already included for adding Adobe’s Reader to the menus if one runs a command to update the menus. Watch the video and see how “hard” this is:
OGG Video - Myth, Third Party Software is Hard to Install
1280×1024 resolution, 22,495,989 bytes, 00:04:28 in length.
Download this and use a video player capable of OGG Theora format to view this.
Flash Video - Myth, Third Party Software is Hard to Install
800×600 resolution, 9,992,556 bytes, 00:04:28 in length.
Download this and use a video player capable of Flash format to view this.
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on Aug 11th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Nice one mate. Except when you consider what a pain it must be, having to deal with all those different distros with their seperate package formats, directory layouts and versions of libraries.
So yes, the problem with third-party software is Linux. See the Linux Hater’s excellent The Fallacy of Choice article.
on Aug 11th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I almost did not allow your comment since you used a throw-away e-mail address to sign up. I usually discard such comments even if they are from someone that agrees with me. However, I appreciate your interest in the topic, if not your interest in hiding.
Linux Standard Base is being developed to address such problems as you posit here. In any case, it is a red herring “problem”. Develop on a relatively modern set of libraries, pick a GUI toolkit and tell folks they will need at least version 1, 2, and 3 of x, y and z on Linux to run your application. Folks who want or need it will figure it out. Many major distributions will get it working if asked by enough users. Some commercial releases like Red Hat and SuSE will probably help if it is closed source (just wave around that NDA first.). But the bottom line is “if you code it, will they want it?”. Unless there is a desire or need for it on the Linux side of the lake, like with Adobe Reader, then coding “foo” is a waste of time.
Interesting article on choice, especially the part about why Linux is so successful in the server space. While I understand and agree to some extent I personally am an advocate of “pick one set of tools you like on a distribution you like and use that”. If your application needs to be cross-distribution then pick a common denominator across the top distributions and use that, preferably LSB. Further, if Adobe can figure this out others can too. I’ve yet to see a major, modern Linux distribution on which I cannot easily install Adobe Reader. Granted, I’ve only installed and tested a handful (some *buntus, my personal favorite Mandriva, Knoppix and Fedora) but I think this would hold true on many other of the top distributions.
I am on the side of those who desire to make Linux easy for the user as much as possible. While there are still areas where Linux is growing there will still be problems with ease of use and ease of development, only a dimwit would disagree with that. However, this is much less a problem today than it was 5 and 10 years ago. But saying Linux cannot be used by an average user because “blah is too hard on Linux” is false in the cases I show here. That is my point, such overreaching statements against using Linux are simply not always true or not even true most of the time as of now. The cases where it may be true are fewer and fewer.
In any case, thanks for dropping in.
Edit Tue Aug 12 20:01:26 UTC 2008: Rewrite to make a sentence more clear in the last full paragraph.
on Aug 11th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Ah, I did not address the “having to deal with all those different distros with their seperate package formats” part. I will remedy that oversight.
Learn generic .rpm, generic .deb and a generic .bin installer. Place your stuff in /usr/local/* and that will cover just about any Linux distribution. It is up to the various distributions to make installing .rpm, .deb and .bin painless.
on Aug 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Hi
Nice post and I certainly agree with nearly all your points although I would like to add that maybe LedgerSMB was not a great example. As LedgerSMB is an accounting package aimed at Small and Medium sized businesses then the ‘install’ should be easy. Now setting up the software is a different matter and any accounting software including those installed on Windows should be setup by a person with some accounting experience or at least book keeping knowledge.
Similar Windows software Quickbooks, Sage Line 50 etc is easy to install, it’s generally post installation that the problems can start. Interestingly, there is a project to get LedgerSMB as a Debian package and I look forward to that. One of the issues is that although LedgerSMB is aimed at the Quickbooks/Sage Line 50 market and similar its architecture is technically better in as much as it is web based and has a separate database. Therefore there is the install and configuration of a web server (apache) and a database (postgreSQL). Because of these choices LedgerSMB is cross platform and currently would be just as complex on Windows or a Mac.
I think generally the install process on all platforms for such packages can be improved but I for one would prefer a technically better, cross platform solution that is web based that requires a little more effort compared to a Quickbooks/ Sage Line 50 but I appreciate we would all like the best of both worlds.
on Sep 23rd, 2008 at 11:24 am
[...] of the prior articles here dealt with the ease of installation of Adobe Reader on Linux. The first comment to that article speculated on Linux development being a [...]
on Nov 9th, 2008 at 9:15 am
I have never had trouble with linux BUT it isnt the easist to install windows apps on
on Nov 9th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Since Linux is not Microsoft “Windows” I find it ironic that you are mentioning the difficulty of installing applications from the Microsoft platforms. If one is locked into a Microsoft “Windows” based application and cannot find an equivalent application on GNU/Linux then that is unfortunate. Sure, one may attempt to use WINE oneself or purchase CrossOver Linux to install and run a Microsoft based application. But expecting Microsoft “Windows” applications to install and run on an entirely different operating system is rather sad.